I’ve been marbling on a regular basis for seven or eight years now and I’ve never had problems with my carrageenan until last summer. Problems with paint, with paper, with alum, but I didn’t even think about the carrageenan; it was always reliable. Last summer I had minor problems with it starting to break down after only a day or two, but I blamed it on the heat and moved on. Last week, I finally had time for my first marbling session in months and I was already to go when I hit a real stopper.
It went like this. The night before, I set up my marbling space, hung my drying lines, chose my paints, mixed the alum and mixed the carrageenan, just as I always do. Two and a half Tbsp. to a gallon of water, two gallons in all. I use distilled water because I have an incredible amount of stuff – iron, calcium, sulfur, and more – in my well water. As usual, I used the same blender to mix it and poured it into my marbling tray to sit overnight.
The next morning, I alummed some paper, mixed my paints and was ready to go. As soon as I skimmed the carrageenan, I could tell something was different. It was much thicker than it should have been and was very uneven. Using a stylus and my rake, I swirled them through the tray to try to even up the liquid. I decided to throw some paint to see what would happen and this is what I got:
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- First piece with lumpy carrageenan
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- Second
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- Third
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- Batch
I rather like the wildness in the first two pieces, but it’s not exactly marbling! As you might imagine, I was getting upset as skimming and stirring didn’t seem to help. Slowly I realized that there were big lumps of carrageenan throughout the tray and that was the problem. I thought about putting the carrageenan through the blender again or just tossing this batch and starting fresh the next day. I tried breaking the lumps with the rakes and that helped and I found that dragging the comb from the top of the tray to the bottom caught the lumps in the tines, so I started straining out the lumps and bit by bit the carrageenan became smoother and smoother.
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- Lumps at one end of tray
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- Carrageenan makes snow
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- Snow is small lumps of carragenan
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- Second batch
As I got rid of the lumps, marbling improved, but it was still very iffy. I was able to pull some pretty good pieces, but I was still straining lumps out after every skim. That created a problem of its own. It was thinning out the remaining carrageenan and, instead of crisp marbling edges, I was getting very soft fuzzy borders. I did finish up that day, but that night I took out an old packet of carrageenan from a different source and mixed a new batch for the next morning.
I still don’t really know why this disaster occurred. It could have been that I lost count and added an extra Tsbp. It could have been mixed too little or too much. It could have been due to cold temperatures that night. It could have been some contamination in the carrageenan powder. I just don’t know, but it was very frustrating!
Next morning I had brand new carrageenan and a brand new tray and marbling went well. In fact things were going so well that I kept on for another three days and I had lots of fun playing with overmarbling, ripples and got back in touch with marbling just for fun. Lots of pictures of my play.
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- My new marbling tray
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- It thought it was a frame, not a tray
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- Drying on the line
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- Drying
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- Oranges
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- Black & White
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- Pile of Papers
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- Another pile
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- Polar map
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- US Map (upside down)
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- What happens when you drop a wet piece
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- Overmarbled Flowers
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- Overmarbling
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- Overmarbling
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- Overmarbling
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- Ripples
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- Ripples
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- Ripples
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- Ripples
In total I had almost 100 pieces – good, bad and indifferent – by the end of the session.
Now, I want to do it again!
But, before that, I have to have a bunch of plumbing replaced right over my work area.
NOTE: Clear acrylic frames come in many sizes and make great, inexpensive marbling trays. Just remember to test how well they hold water before using. If they leak, plumber’s Goop or other sealant will seal the edges.
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Interesting! I tried marbling for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and had the same issue with chunky carrageenan. I’m thinking I may have undermixed it.
And I thought I was the only one who messed up! Let me know how you get on. It’s worth trying again. Check your proportions as well as giving it a longer mixing time. I use 2 1/2 Tablespoons to a gallon of water and that has worked for me for years.
Happy marbling!
Nancy
Hi Nancy, I am new to the process of marbling. I used distilled water to make my Carrageenan size and mixed in a Ninja blender for approx 1 minute on high speed. I used the exact proportions you describe 2.5 tbs to 1 gallon of distilled water. I refrigerated it for 5 days and then used it with my paints and paper and got this mess (I don’t know if this picture is properly posted–I can email it to you if it doesn’t show up here). I have the lambda carrageenan from Galen Berry’s website so I know it’s good stuff. what do you think is wrong with this? The consistency of the carrageenan size was like thin motor oil. /Users/alisa_beaubien/Desktop/Thirdagain.JPG
Alisa,
The photos didn’t come through. Please send them to and I’ll check them out.
Nancy
Alissa,
I know how you feel about the setup and takedown! I always just want to get to the marbling itself! Your papers are fine, very good for a beginner! There will always be some bad papers in every marbling sessiion expect it! The more you do, the better they get, but they are never all perfect.
Having the carageenan at room temperature is best, but that print is OK. The carageenan seems to be working well. The first print of any marbling session will be a bit trashy. It takes a while for the carageenan to settle down and many marblers will tell you that it has to get a bit “dirty” to produce the best results.
Odds & ends of tips. I wish I could be there with you as it’s much easier to show than to explain.
1. Don’t stir the carrageenan between prints. Just skim well so there’s no paint on your skimmer and only skim the very top surface.
2. Don’t try to do everything at once. I know it’s tempting, but take your time and learn to make a really great get-gel before moving on to more complex patterns. Think of it as doing your scales, boring but fundamental. When you have a great get-gel, move on to one size rake/comb (just one!) and play with that it different combinations. Don’t be afraid to try weird stuff – diagonal, two trips in the same direction, etc. You’ll quickly see what you like and what you’ll never do again.
3. It looks like you are whisking your colors. Try using droppers instead. It helps to control the paint application and you can see which colors are spreading and which need more water or surfactant. I usually start sessions with droppers to balance my paints, then move to whisks for special effects. It does mean more cleanup.
4. Reds are very difficult. They turn pink easily. Try to drop the colors you want to be bold first or second. If you use droppers, you can see how the first colors intensify as the later colors push them. Red also is usually stronger than other colors and pushes them aside. The more a color spreads, the paler it becomes.
5. Don’t worry about the white for now. After you’ve dropped and pulled 100 sheets, you’ll learn how to control it.
6. I’m not sure what size paper/tray you are using, but you might want to consider using a small tray, say 11×14 for 9×12 paper, while practicing. It goes much faster and it’s easier to figure out the problems.
7. Relax and enjoy the process. It’s not all about the finished work. That will come.
You are doing very well. If you were in one of my classes, I’d give you a gold star!
Happy marbling,
Nancy
I’m noticing that your last blogs were 2016… are you still actively contributing marbling updates to this site?. And I pray that we will hear more from you. I enjoy your explanations and your posts.. you’re very articulate and easy to understand
Conda,
Thanks for visiting my blog and noticing my lapse! I’ve stepped away from my blog for too long and am having trouble getting back to it. I’m still marbling, but not as much as before. I still respond to questions, but feel that I don’t have much new to say about marbling. I’m hoping to have enough energy to set up a marbling session after Labor Day and to be able to document it!
Thank you so much for your kind words.
Nancy
Hi Nancy,
Just reading your last reply I hope you are still out there. I am looking at your Polar map print. I get these gaps in my pattern creating white spaces in my finished product. At first I thought I needed to fill the tray more with more color but it made no difference. Can you tell me why there are spaces left not filled with the paint.
Many thanks
Ros
Ros,
Actually, the spaces in my map marbling are usually done on purpose by dropping a tiny bit of “Acrylic Flow Release (Golden)” mixed with a bit of water. I started doing this to make sure that there were portions of the map that could be easily identified.
White spaces appear in marbling when there are areas of the size not covered with paint and there can be many different causes.
1. Poor skimming of the size leaving alum/paint/dirt residue
2. Not enough paint dropped for complete coverage
3. Stray drops of water from whisks or droppers
4. Air bubbles trapped as the paper is laid down – the bane of my existence! These are usually circular and may have dark “drags” nearby
5. Purposely done with water or Flow Release. For the use of this technique in art marbling, check out Robert Wu’s work. His studio is in Toronto and he used to have a shop on Etsy.
Hope this helps and thanks for stopping by.
Nancy
Hi – I’m new to marbling and find your blog helpful! I made a small batch for my first time out. 1 tbsp caragennan to 1.25 liters of water. I blenderized it 3 times an hour or so apart and then it sat at room temp for a day. Now it seems awfully thick – a lot of it is sticking to the paper. I just made 4 paints and am trying to tune them – a lot of paint did sink but water and gall helped. When I got the paints to float, the size still felt pretty thick – a comb didn’t do too much – small patterns. Do you have any advice for me? Thank you – Jennifer
Jennifer,
Thanks for stopping by. I’ve been on vacation the past week and ignoring my email!
The problem is that your mixture is too strong. It should be 2.5 Tablespoons to 1 US gallon which is about 4 liters. It only needs to be mixed once. The extra mixing may also thicken the carrageenan. Try 1 Tbsp. to 2 liters, mixed once and see if that helps. Before thinning the paints, try to get the carrageenan a little thinner than a raw egg white. If it still seems too thick, you can gradually add water to your tray and stir it in using your combs or a stylus.
Good luck & happy marbling,
Nancy
Nancy was so delighted when I got your notification…
I want to tell you about an experience I had with my thickened water and temperatures? and the water-carrageenan ratio? And I believe serendipity… or happenstance is my partner in my creationing…
my solution was two and 1/2 TBSP carrageenan to one gallon of water mixed with a Ninja blender…my studio is cool always cool with large Windows..
If I’m marbling for myself and not for someone else. I don’t wipe or clean my thickened water every time …I like to get surprises… I’ve had some amazing and happenstance prints from these combinations… old left on colors with new colors…. this combination has given me some of the most interesting an unbelievable Cool fronts for note cards. I love them! And people love them.
After a long day of taking prints off my water I had not covered my tray …was tired and went to bed …next morning I got up and I was starting again. I added thinned paints in pink, spring green and yellow some other spring colors to the surface.. and then I realized the water was thicker then I had ever seen it before ..not Jello thick but not as I had left it the night before. I went ahead and proceeded to create designs with one chop stick ..The paint instead of spreading out like it normally does…. but spread slowly and differently.
Look up the word DENDRITE… and you will see what I produced in soft green yellow and pink on my thickened lwater and then on my paper-print …fans ,ferns and trees …what a Marvelous Happenstance! Pure serendipity.
And this is what I have deduced as my explanation… room was colder… it was left uncovered so some water evaporated… I had used same water the day before for a lot of prints… there was extra paint in the water because I hadn’t cleaned it after every print. And every time that you take a print.not only do you get the paint but you also get water and some carrageenan so …carrageenan had thicker because of the room and metal tray temperature and the water that was taken from it either through evaporation or use of it. And taking those factors into account and I believe that would be a clear explanation
I have since purposely reproduced the same type of design… but as with marbling no two designs are ever the same…
sorry this is so long but I just had to share with somebody who perhaps will understand.
I get such a thrill every time I marble.. I’m hoping someday that I will be able create and sell some of my Surplus.. I am starting to teach others how to create with marbling and I always instruct them to wipe the previous print residue from the thickened water…
As for me I am looking forward to more Happenstance..
Best regards,
Conda Puckett
Marbling always creates fun, and not so fun, surprises. The most boring thing I ever marbled was an “edition” of 15 identical papers – well, as identical as one gets in marbling. I really admire people who can pull sheet after sheet of similar papers. Not nearly as much fun as playing.
My favorite technique is overmarbling, where you take a marbled paper and marble it a second time with different colors or different patterns.
Hi!! I’m still gathering my supplies and I have a Carrageenan question. I bought a bag, on Amazon, thinking I was getting 40 oz, it was Jacquard, but they cleverly labeled it exactly like this, 4Oz. What I got was 4 oz for $20! I’m sending it back. However, I’m wondering if you have a good source or a brand for a Carrageenan suitable for marbling. I see there are different ‘grades’, Lambda, Kappa, etc., available on Amazon, but it’s all confusing. How about MarbleArt.us, 1/2 # for $25, I think he’s a reliable retailer. However, this stuff is not cheap and I don’t want to waste my time troubleshooting on the wrong Size! Thanks, Nancy!!
Oh, in other posts in your blog, someone had a question about Ox Gall vs. Photo Flo, etc., and I did some research.
Traditional Turkish Ebru uses ‘Paints’ made from hand-ground earth pigments, water and Ox Gall. The point is that it is Watercolor, not ‘paint’ as we think of it. Acrylics have pigments, yes, but also binders and other ingredients and this is why sometimes water only will help a paint to float, and the addition of Photo Flo or your suggested Golden Acrylic Flo Release to this actual paint will help it to move as well as or better than Ox Gall. Just thought that was interesting. I did buy Synthetic Ox Gall with my first purchases, not understanding that it is not necessary, and I will test it out with both acrylics and watercolor, just to see what happens.
Happy Marbling! Hope you are back at it!!
Thanks for the info. on ox gall. Interesting. It confirms what I had assumed, but hadn’t bothered to check out.
Marble Art can definitely be trusted on the carrageenan. Dhrama Trading is also a good source. There several people on Etsy who carry it also and I ordered from one in Israel. I think the name was Dodi or something like that. I was pleasantly surprised at how quick and cheap the shipping was. I would trust pretty much anyone who also sells their own marbled paper. 😉
Nancy
Nancy
I discovered your sight and I’m hooked! I bought all the supplies and I’m experimenting with papers. The main problem I’m having is some of my colors run/streak. I noticed in one of your prints the purple was kind of running. What do you think causes this?
Thank you,
Katherine
Hi Katherine,
Thanks for your kind words.
Some streaks are caused by the paint being too dense or heavy for the paper. Some papers can absorb more paint than others. Trial and error is the best method for determining the correct mix of paint and water for your favorite papers, with the caveat that different color paints react slightly different.
Colors can run due to heavy rinsing also. Another cause of streaking is poor application of the alum, but that looks more like the paper showing through than the paint running.
Happy Marbling.
Nancy